Zaadz: Integral Christianity

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group - time clarification

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:47:48 -0000

Thanks for the reminder. I just realized about the time change this morning!

Talk to you tomorrow,

Nicole

How (Not) To Speak Of God

Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:00:59 -0000

traditionally there have been two primary approaches to christian theology & spirituality - cataphatic (applying conceptual ideas to God, either abstract or metaphorical) & apophatic (acknowledging that God is beyond any concepts we may try to apply to him) - apophatic
theology & spirituality are an integral (if sometimes unacknowledged) part of the orthodox & roman catholic traditions, but fell out of favor with the protestant churches - i think the reasons
for this are complex, but maybe it is primarily because the reformers placed so much emphasis on intellectual & emotional conversion, & acceptance of propositions of faith - thus the emphasis on being born again, or saved by accepting Jesus as personal savior - sadly, all too often evangelicals fall into fundamentalism & vehemently deny that there is anything deeper than the initial conversion experience of being born again or saved.

in his book How (Not) To Speak Of God, Peter Rollins seems to have created a postmodern form of apophatic theology, something truly lacking in protestant & evangelical christianity - Rollins is a founder & facilitator at Ikon, an outpost of the emerging church in Belfast, Northern Ireland that meets in a bar and puts on very creative multimedia events - he draws on apophatic mystics such as Meister Eckhart & on postmodern theory to advocate a return to the paradoxical truth that the God who is revealed in Jesus Christ remains the God who cannot be caged in any concept

the first half of the book is a short but dense theological argument (be forewarned that Rollins loves paradoxical propositions) - the second half of the book is a description of a series of creative ritual events that have been produced by Ikon - Rollins makes several important points by this double edged approach - 1) that the christian revelation too often becomes a conceptual idol 2) that revelation of God is equally concealment 3) that a balanced approach to spirituality is iconic, that is, "to view particular words, images, & experiences as aids in contemplation of that which cannot be reduced to words, images, & experiences" 4) that the experience of absence, darkness, & abandonment, the dark night of the spirit so to speak, is an integral part of christian experience & relationship to God

the term dark night of the soul has fallen into common use & been trivialized in our time - but St John of the Cross was trying to make a profound point - that a deeper experience of communion with God is only possible after undergoing a sometimes painful purification - he did not see this as the result of any effort on our part, but as a grace bestowed by God - the authors of apophatic mystical works such as the Cloud of Unknowing, St John of the Cross, or St Dionysious were for all monastics, who were schooled in devotional cataphatic practices such as psalmody, & practicing the liturgical hours of prayer - maybe it requires a strong foundation in the practice of devotion to God to be able to bear surrendering all the concepts we have pasted onto God

i highly recommend Peter Rollins book, & also a couple of websites where he blogs

http://www.peterrollins.net/

http://www.ignite.cd/blogs/Pete/index.cfm

These are a few basic works of apophatic spirituality that are easily available I would also recommend:

Dark Night of the Soul by St John of the Cross - translation by Mirabai Starr

The Cloud of Unknowing & The Book of Privy Counsel - edited by William Johnston

Contemplative Prayer by Thomas Merton

peace
joseph

Re: How (Not) To Speak Of God

Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:12:47 -0000

Dear Joseph, this is great for our God Pod and also excellent for our new online Contemplative Prayer Group that has started meeting on Sundays (next week it will meet at 11 am EST)

blessings,

nicole

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:20:48 -0000

Dear Chad and Nicole,

I obviously missed the time together last night, and apologies for this. Its supper time in Ireland, when the group is meeting, and last night my beloved husband, had made an excellent dinner, So, when you were talking together, I was drinking a very fine glass of claret, and eating some venison!!.

I realised the time, and logged on later, but no one there. I will put a reminder in my diary for future times, but as I said before, if my children are here for a visit, they come first.

I hope it was a blessed dialogue for you all.

Clare

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:59:04 -0000

It was great, with Jayne too, but we missed you! hope next week's time is better for you Clare, which will be 4 pm your time.

love and blessings

nicole

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:27:25 -0000

Hi Clare,

Thanks for keeping us informed! We missed you and your wise counsel, but we are happy to have you drop in when you are available. Next Sunday, I think it will be at 15:00 GMT (3 p.m.) for you instead of 4 p.m. because Nicole needs to be free by noon her time (Eastern Daylight), which is GMT -4 hours. So if we meet at 11 a.m. her time, it will be 3 p.m. for you, and 9 a.m. for Jayne and 8 a,m, for me because we don't go on DST in Mexico until April 6.

Clare, I'm sending you an invitation to join Skype if you don't have it yet. I think the sound will be better for Jayne and Nicole. If you join, please let us know you Skype ID so we can add you to our contact list and have a conference call (free) there on Sunday for our meeting.

Interestingly, the 3 of us all became attracted to Christian mysticism through the writings of St, John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila. Next Sunday, we will share more of our personal spiritual journeys (with everyone able to speak and hear, we hope) and talk about what direction we would like the group to take. Interested was expressed in Oprah's interviews with Eckhardt Tolle, but also the thought that we might want to focus on something more nearly rooted in the Christian mystical tradition, perhaps something written by Thomas Keating. Many of Keatings books are available in their entirety online:

http://www.contemplativeoutreach.org/archives.htm (See the list in the right-hand column.)

I have joined Nicole's "Is there a God?" group and will post announcements there as well as here.

Love and blessings, Chad

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:32:53 -0000

Hi again, Clare

I can't invite you because i don't have an e-mail address for you, but here is the link to Skype's download for Windows page:

http://www.skype.com/download/skype/windows/

When you have your Skype Contact ID, please send it to me by Gaia mail so I can invite you into our conference call on Sunday.

Blessings, Chad

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:46:31 -0000

Chad - have you clicked on the 'send email' link underneath Clare's profile photo? I know that I see personal emails easier when they are delivered in that way vs. in a post - which sometimes gets buried in the long lists of posts. Just a suggestion.

Blessings.

P.S. I just checked out the link to the Keating archives - what a resource! I may be reading for a while.

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:53:38 -0000

Good point, Jayne!

Chad

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:20:33 -0000

clare has joined the god pod too so we can continue over there...

blessings

nicole

Re: The Jesus of History and The Holon of Christ

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:49:53 -0000

the essay has been reposted by Chris Dierkes on his blog - it can be found here http://indistinctunion.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/the-jesus-of-history-and-the-holon-of-christ/#more-1569 peace joseph

Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:51:35 -0000

Contemplative Prayer Support Group will meet again on Sunday, March 16 at at 9 a.m. Mountain Daylight Time, 10 a.m. Central Time, 10 a.m. Eastern Time, 15:00 (3 p.m.) GMT

Last Sunday, we began to share how we became interested in contemplative prayer and a bit about our own personal histories and spiritual journeys.

Perhaps we can continue along those lines and, also, each of us could share one or more wise sayings or quotes that have resonated with us in helpful and/or powerful ways. It might be helpful if each of us who wants to would post such sayings or quotes here so that the rest of us could reflect on them and relate to them during our conversation on Sunday.

Here is the direct link to the thread for our group, which Nicole has transplanted to the Is There a God? Group, for anyone who wants to bookmark it:

http://pods.gaia.com/is_there_a_god/discussions/view/248888

Also, I thought I could put the sayings or quotes in a PowerPoint file and display them for us to read during our conversation. We could view the material in the virtual conference room while we are talking on Skype. We will use Skype for voice because not all of us were able to hear and speak in the virtual room last Sunday. Jayne, Nicole, Clare and I are all on each other's Skype contact list. I am Gaia-mailing this to Jim Stegall and Balder, both of who have indicated an interest.

Here's the link to the virtual room:

http://online.e-lecta.com/tools/subscribeA.asp?cid=33&roomid=2571

The idea for sharing meaningful quotes came to me from Jim Stegall, who referred me to quotes by Laura Teresa Marquez. Here's one that Jim has in his profile:

"Bless the upward hearts who find all war, all envy and all regret to be unacceptable, especially inside themselves." â€¨

And another:

"The Source of all Beauty surrounds me, the Source of all Joy uplifts me, and the Source of all Resilience protects me."

Here is one of hers that resonated with me, especially in connection with my practice of contemplative prayer:

"Wanting to be better in performance is like wanting to be happy - it is very difficult to get there directly. It is much wiser, first, to focus on the building blocks - and, in the case of performance, the building blocks are commitment, resilience and ruthless disregard for distractions."

Blessings, and welcome to all who would like to participate,
Chad

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:11:44 -0000

Correction:
Sunday's meeting on Skype begins at 11 a.m. Eastern Time (all other times are accurately stated).

Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 02:54:50 -0000

Contemplative prayer is not so much the absence of thoughts as detachment from them. It is the opening of mind and heart, body and emotions--our whole being--to God, the Ultimate Mystery, beyond words, thoughts and emotions-- beyond, in other words, the psychological content of the present moment. We do not deny or repress what is in our consciousness. We simply accept the fact of whatever is there and go beyond it, not by effort, but by letting go of whatever is there.

Thomas Keating, Open Heart, Open Mind, Ch. 2

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 04:19:04 -0000

Chad and all - I am sorry that I will not be on the call tomorrow (Sunday). I had an unexpected house guest arrive who will be in the living room where the computer is and I don't see how I can make it work (no privacy, etc.). So so sorry. I'm sure I'll get word on next week's meeting. I might put in a request to make it later in the day? I think this week was scheduled earlier due to another commitment that Nicole had. Have a lovely time together.

Blessings...

Jayne

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:37:50 -0000

Dear Jayne,

We'll miss you but we understand.

Next weekend I will be away on Silent Retreat so will have no input into the time. I will see what the others think about the later time so hopefully it will work for you then.

Love,

Nicole

Re: Integral Christianity Defined

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:10:21 -0000

I think you may get a number of folks like me, born in the Christian faith, still hold it deep in their soul, but who have looked into the wider experience of God and the Divine. So perhaps another aspect of Integral Christianity is "a Christian community opening their hearts to the wisdom across the world and across time."

There's a quote by Gandhi where he talks about his respect for all religions, seeing them all has having validity. For that very reason he saw no reason to forsake his Hindu faith. I think that describes me somewhat, though I entered my spiritual search through Catholicism.

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:53:20 -0000

Hello Group!

My name is Timothy. Ive been practicing Contemplative Prayer for about eight years now. Ive been teaching it for about six.

Is your group still meeting? If so, I would like to be a part of it.

Let me know.

Timothy

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:59:04 -0000

Hi Timothy, and welcome!

There is more information on the support group in the "announcements" section of Jayne's Contemplation and Beyond pod.

I've yet to join in with the support group's phone meetings, but plan to when I get around to purchasing my Skype technology .....

Blessings,

Mary

Can Tolle Awaken Christ Consciousness?

Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:21:53 -0000

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