Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Thanks for the new board, Grey!

Okay, anyone interested in a Ken Wilber book group? I think it might be interesting. There are a lot of good books we could go through, and it would be great when a new one comes out to go through it together.

We could try any number of his books:
 
Integral Spirituality would be interesting. It has a lot of challenging stuff that would be good to go over again if anyone has already read it.

The new, 200-or-so-page The Integral Vision might be good. It gives us a rundown of the basics , as I understand it, with some cool pictures.

His journal One Taste has a lot of cool stuff in it.

The collection in The Simple Feeling of Being might be cool.

We'd probably learn a few things by reading Boomeritis, which was written as a novel.

The Marriage of Sense and Soul: Integrating Sciene and Religion would be interesting.

There are plenty of others that would be great as well. Any takers?  :) If so, I would suggest that we go through them very slowly so it wouldn't become a burden. Maybe one chapter a week.


David

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Group

Hi David,

I'll join - would like to start with either No Boundary, as i think that's an important earlier book for him, or Integral Psychology since I'm reading that at the moment.

Frans

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Group

Hi David,

I am into this, and digging snippets of late so order of preference is:

The Simple Feeling of Being
One Taste
Boomeritis
Integral Spirituality

Lisa

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Group

Don't forget his online writings

http://wilber.shambhala.com/index.cfm/

I just finished Toward A Comprehensive Theory of Subtle Energies

I have never read Boomertitis

I just reviewed some sections of Integral Spirituality

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Group

Great idea, Daniel - if people decided to use the online Wilber stuff then everybody has instant access to it.

Integral Spirituality is available for download - for Integral Spiritual Center members - so people could access that readily as well.  (The introduction is a free download here.)

Unfortunately I'm way too swamped to participate in this at the present time, but I'll be watching.  :)  (And if you pick one of his books I've already read, I might jump in from time to time.)

spirals,
Arthur

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Group

I'd be interested in joining with regard to some of Wilber's lesser read or 'obscure' book, which I haven't read, such as Spiritual Choices or The Holographic Paradigm.

For reference, here's the list on KW.com

I still have never read The Atman Project and The Marriage of Sense and Soul.

Anyway, some input …

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Group

The Holographic Paradigm. Cool. A bit over priced at $1.36 don't you think? : - ) (kidding)

Believe it or not, I have a copy!

The 4th Quadrant  (which one?) , over and out.

Daniel

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Lots of choices and opinions.  David, why don't you pick one?  I'd love to see Tim engage here before he becomes too old and we have to put him out with the trash, so maybe go with his suggestion..?  :-)

Frans

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Actually, did you see the price of Spiritual Choices!? $123.85! That's the one I really want to read, but I don't know, now that I'm on a fixed income and the SS checks only coming once a month …

I know! Collective birthday present! Come on, cough it up, you'll be sorry when I'm gone. And I never will get over that time when my friend's little brother broke the coveted Energized Spiderman I got for my birthday, only a few days later (before I could get the Spider-copter [sold seperately])  … and then there was the time my brother rode my new birthday bike to the corner drug store and it was stolen, only 30days after (“Fifty dollards down the drain!” my mother said”) … my life has been nothing but a litany of broken birthday dreams and suffering … and now . ..

My paypal adress is …

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Yes, there were lots of great suggestions. I think each of them would be great to look into at some point. I also really want to pick one that everyone who has expressed an interest will want to read. Spiritual Choices was one that I thought might fit the bill, but, yes, it is too expensive, especially for people outside of North America. Actually it is available used, but it is still pretty expensive in the UK at least. Maybe we could work that out for some point in the future; it looks like it would be a fun one to discuss.
 

How about The Marriage of Sense and Soul? It's a fairly recent book, 1999, and it's on a topic that has come up here and on the blogs a lot recently. I remember reading the introduction when it came out, and it looked really good, though I didn't buy it. It is basically about putting science and religion together and has chapters on such things as paradigms, modernism, idealism, and postmodernism. It might be a cool way to begin and put future discussions in the right context or frame. It's also not very long.

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

David: I want to make it clear that anyone can pop into these discussions at any time and drop out whenever they feel like it, then pop in again later on. Pop in for one chapter or discussion and pop out for the next, if that's what you feel like or need to do. It's not like an exclusive group that you can't be in if you're not there all the time.

~

Pop in, pop out, pop in - what is this, a discussion or whack-a-mole?  lol  :P

lightly,
Arthur

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

“Spiritual Choices was one that I thought might fit the bill, but, yes, it is too expensive, especially for people outside of North America. Actually it is available used, but it is still pretty expensive in the UK at least. Maybe we could work that out for some point in the future; it looks like it would be a fun one to discuss.”

I don't know where everyone is looking. Here's Amazon @ $4.99 used paperback American. (try the American Amazon…I'm not sure what shipping would be trans-atlantic).

http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Choices-Recognizing-Authentic-Transformation/dp/0913729191/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207790872&sr=8-1


The expensive one for $123.85 is the Hardback edition which is great if you are a collector. I guess it's out of print.

Daniel

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Ooooh, let's do it then: Spiritual Choices. Yes?

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

I think Spiritual Choices might work, but we have to see whether our European members can get it at a reasonable price and also how long it will take to get there if they have to get it from the U.S. The delivery, I see, could take 3-6 weeks. If that's the case, we might want to begin with something else.

David

PS. Arthur–hitting those chipmunks with a mallet! What a brutal game! I confess I did a few myself . .. I guess they were moles and not chipmunks, but still.  :)

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

I'm game for Spiritual Choices.

This is a side note. Timelody brought up “The Holographic Paradigm”



This was published in 1982. Sex Ecology and Spirituality came out in 1995. Doesn't this cover look like a rough draft for the 4 quadrants diagram? It sat around for over 10 years before Wilber revealed his brainchild of the 4 quadrants. Is this a paradox? : - )

I also would like to just set the record straight with Wilber blowing his horn on the importance of shadow work concurrent with meditation in Integral Spirituality. This is nothing new. Wilber has many people to thank for this. Some notables off the bat are Ram Dass and Alan Watts…both contemporary 60s and 70s influences. Then came Wilber in 1973.

Dan

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Psychotherapy East and West - Alan Watts 1961

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

I don't know that anyone is blowing their horn about it -that transpersonal psychology precedes Wilber is a well ackowledged fact. What is also ackowledged, however, is the original contribution he made to the field with his first book, The Spectrum of Consciousness, which offered a model of how all of it fit together (an involutionary model which is still quite in accordance with 'states' as it is refined today) and could be explained simply, in contemporary terms, etc.

The other thing I do know is that once Eastern psychology established itself as popular in the West, Western psychology was largely ignored and psychotherapy in particular was largely derided. In my own experience, for example, it's seen as damaging , harmful, a deception. Higher (deeper) states will solve all your problems. Psychotherapy makes them worse, compounds ego, etc. For this reason, then, and others, it still remains important to emphasize shadow along with the rest. It's also true that the whole field of transpersonal psychology in general just never captured the imagination of the whole new spiritual movement.

Again, speaking from my own experience … well, I've lost spiritual friends simply becasue they wont ackowledge thier shadow, or that Western forms of psychology are what is necessary to reconcile and release them.

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

We'll, here's my shadow. Thanks for clearing that up Timelody. Looking forward to beginning whatever book everyone agrees on. I'm still open to suggestions. Sorry about the distraction here, I know its a book discussion thread. Specific commentary perhaps is best held elsewhere…speaking of shadow. On the other hand, its been good to get to know the chronology of Wilbers books, what original ideas they presented and when they were presented historically.

Now that we are on the subject, is Spiritual Choices supposed to be a good book? Several people seem very excited about it. I never heard of it until this thread.

Dan

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

The only reference, or at least partial reference, to it is in Eye to Eye where the subject is touched upon in one of the essays. Wilber also ackowledged it in the Wyatt Erpy blogs a little. This book, as I understand it, came out right around the whole Jim Jones thing and/or in response to those sorts of controversies. Cults, etc. On the one hand, what seems like a good thing, people sincerely seeking Spirit, new forms of religion, etc. and on the other some very serious cases of things gone awry. The book has multiple authors, actual studies (I believe) and is, I think still one of a kind -in that it ackowledges the authentic spiritual search and experience, as well as the pathologies, etc.

But anyway,it's still up to whatever everyone wants to do.

Peace, Tim

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Shadow - what shadow?  Where shadow?  We don't do shadow - we're integral, aren't we :-)

Frans
Speaking from the dark side

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Do anyone know what book Mr Wilber is working on at the moment? I heard something about a name called “Overview and Superview”. Any info?

//D.

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Here is a review of Spiritual Choices. We're waiting to see if one of our members, Lisa, can get that book quickly or not (any other non North Americans interested? Is?). Should know reasonably soon whether it will need to be ordered from the U.S. If that's the case, we might want to start with either The Atman Project or The Marriage of Sense and Soul. I borrowed The Atman Project from the library and picked through it once. I liked it. It might make sense to start with an early book that shows how his vision began, and this gives us a lot of the building blocks. Some of it will be outdated, of course, but I remember it being pretty good. And of course there are still other possibilities, including The Holographic Paradigm. If we need to start with something else, which one would people be interested in?

Is, the book you're referring to is titled Overmind, Supermind (isn't it great how I've italicized all the titles in this post?). That's about third-tier stages; the title is a play on Aurobindo's terms for those stages, which Ken has adopted. You can read a little bit about that book or at least the subject matter here. That should be a great one. Another one coming out is The Many Faces of Terrorism. That's going to come out in 3 books. Here's an article about it.


David

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Here, I'll just reprint the review -Thanks David:

Fate Magazine Book Review

Spiritual Choices edited by Dick Anthony, Bruce Ecker and Ken Wilber
Paragon House Publishers, New York, N.Y., 1987, 375 pgs., $12.95, paperback.

With the proliferation of Indian gurus, Christian evangelists and new religious cults, it is difficult for interested seekers and scholars to know which are authentic and which are fraudulent. It is a dilemma that can have devastating consequences: witness Jim Jones and Jonestown. Spiritual Choices goes a long way in helping intelligent researchers make a clear and rational choice in the right direction.

Based primarily on Dick Anthony's eight-cell topology (ranging from “multi-level monistic charismatic groups to unilevel dualistic technical groups”), which appraises a spiritual movement in terms of its metaphysics, daily practice or ritual and interpretive sensibility, Spiritual Choices offers the reader a comprehensive guideline to the strengths and weaknesses of almost any kind of religious movement.

For instance, those groups that are most problematic tend to be dualistic religions (like fundamentalist biblical Christianity) with a charismatic leader (like some television ministers: Jim Bakker, et al). The least problematic groups tend to be monistic religions (like Zen Buddhism or Advaita Vedanta Hinduism) with a technical organization or emphasis (such as Surat Shabd Yoga and Kriya Yoga) that have teachers with a historical lineage behind them.

What makes Spiritual Choices such an exceptional work is that it tests its theoretical constructs with a number of modern case studies, including analyses of est training, Meher Baba, Zen practice and Tantric Yoga. It also presents a devastating critique of teachers who have engaged in sexual activity with their followers under the guise that it is for their spiritual “upliftment.” As the editors rightly assert, “A spiritual master who sexually exploits a trusting disciple is comparable to a parent who sexually molests a child.”

In these times of paranormal fraud it is refreshing to know that there is a book like Spiritual Choices which separates the genuine spiritual quest from the charlatan's capital gain. If you are seriously thinking about joining a religion or following a guru or are just interested in the occult scene, reading Spiritual Choices first may be the best choice of all.
–David Christopher Lane

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

An odd place to find a Ken Wilber review. Fate Magazine? Latest issue on Psychic Martians.




Good review though for Spiritual Choices.

Dan

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Well sure! Wid all dem psychic martians 'round we needs a good book t' he'p us make sense t' it som'n pow'rful!!!

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

I can see how it makes sense to reach out to the mythic level of the New Age crowd given they may be highly prone to Cults. Who can forget Heaven's Gate?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28religious_group%29

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

David: Is, the book you're referring to is titled Overmind, Supermind (isn't it great how I've italicized all the titles in this post?). That's about third-tier stages; the title is a play on Aurobindo's terms for those stages, which Ken has adopted.

~

You're right that it's a play on words of Aurobindo's terms Overmind and Supermind, but the titles of the books will be Overview and Superview.  If I recall correctly, they are a greatly expanded and reworked version of Transformations of Consciousness.

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Okay, I think we're on for Spiritual Choices. So everyone can go ahead and procure the book. When we will begin is still a question mark, however, since we don't know how long it will take for the book to travel to the UK and perhaps other countries. Especially if you live outside of the U.S., please order the book now because it might take awhile. It looks really interesting.

I think we can expect to wait at least three weeks, perhaps even as long as six (that was the range given on Amazon). But usually things get there and here faster than they say. At any rate, we could just chill in the meantime, or we might consider looking through some essay or interview or blog. Are there any online essays anyone would be interested in going through? This board should also have the word “videos” in it somewhere, so we can start threads on videos in this board as well.

David

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

The books I have ordered from U.S. have taken around two months to arrive to me here in Finland.

Irmeli

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

I found the book at Amazon, but when ordering the message appeared that they cannot send it to me.
At Shambhala I couldn't even find the book.
These are the only places I have ordered books from U.S. Do you have you any other suggestions?

Irmeli

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Ouch, that's a long time. Are you going to order a copy of Spiritual Choices, Irmeli? It would be great to have you in on the discussions, but of course it's not necessary to be reading the book to be in on the discussions.

Hmmm, if it's going to be that long we might consider starting another book. We have to see if Irmeli and Dawid are going to try to get a hold of a copy. It might be a little quicker to England.

Thanks, Irmeli,

David

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Irmeli,

One of us could order the book for you, have it arrive at our address , then re-ship it to you. I don't know why they can't send you a copy. I could order you a copy, hopefully no more than $12 U.S. with shipping. Then, re-ship. Not sure what that would be though. I know I have shipped things to Scotland and it wasn't that bad.

Daniel

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Daniel, I would appreciate very much if you could order it to me that way. I could then pay all the costs for you.

Irmeli

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Hi Irmeli,

You could try this place (the least-expensive ones are on the bottom). You could also try these. Lisa got hers from A1. Good luck.

David

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

David,

Today I managed to place an order through Amazon. I chose expedited shipping. It is supposed to take max 22 working days.

Irmeli

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

I just ordered it from Hanson Station - $8.50 used, in good condition.  Should be here in about 2-3 weeks.

Frans

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Excellent, Frans.  :) For some of our participants it may take longer than two or three weeks, though. Is there anything you might like to go through in the meantime? Some people, including myself, would like to go through Integral Spirituality at some point, but if others are, say, really interested in Holographic Paradigm we might go through that. It is readily available in the UK and probably other countries, so there shouldn't be quite as much of a wait. However, as I said, I am okay with just chilling in the meantime. I don't want to cram something in in a frenzied manner, so it might be better just to chill. I am just wondering how others feel about that. We could go through a chapter or two of Integral Spirituality since a lot of people already have that and then just drop it when Spiritual Choices has made its way to everyone's door, finishing up IS later. There may be enough going on at the moment, actually, but we'll see.

David

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Somewhere around 1990 I gave my copy of The Holographic Paradigm to a freind. Today she called me. We hadn't spoken in fifteen years. She's doing her residency in the local hopsital.

Maybe it's a sign (that I'm going to get the book back!).

K

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

A chapter or two of Integral Spirituality sounds perfect. Let it role..

Lisa

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

“Is, the book you're referring to is titled Overmind, Supermind (isn't it great how I've italicized all the titles in this post?). That's about third-tier stages; the title is a play on Aurobindo's terms for those stages, which Ken has adopted. You can read a little bit about that book or at least the subject matter here. That should be a great one. Another one coming out is The Many Faces of Terrorism. That's going to come out in 3 books. Here's an article about it.”

Interesting article, thanks man. Where did you get this info? Where can I read more? Some blog perhaps?

Also, it's not about books, but Ken Wilber talked a bit about making a movie with Larry Wachowski called “The Everything Movie”. He said it would be like the Matrix, but seen through an Integral Framework, based on the book “A Brief History of Everything”…….. Do anyone know something about this?!? Can't find anything on the internet.

Perhaps they were just out in a some bar, and after like 100 beers they were like: “Ey, man…. LOVE YOUR STUFF, awesome dude. We should make a movie some day! YEEAH!”

“Uuuhh… Yeah, spot on DUDE! WE WILL, no doubt. I'll just convince Warner tomorrow for another 40 million$ and then we're ALL SET! <hic>”

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Hi David,


i don't have IS - would love to discuss No Boundary…but I'm equally fine just “listening in” to IS being discussed by those who have that book.

Frans

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Re: Ken Wilber Book Discussions

Hi ya folks!


I just purchased Spiritual Choices (did anyone else notice that Ken only edited this book?)

I would also be up for a discussion on Integral Sprituality in the mean time.

(sorry for the italics, just changed my browser to Foxfire and it won't let me edit … or at least I haven't it figured out yet)

c ya.

g