Zaadz: The Integral Pod

Re: Encounters of the far out kind

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:02:00 -0000

Re: Robert Masters' Psychotherapy Practicum

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:05:51 -0000

Yeah, somehow the notion that Arthur is also doing it makes it more real. I'm even more scare-I mean, excited. Yeah, that's it. Excited!

Liz

Re: Important Announcement about the Pod

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 06:09:08 -0000

Mary, thanx for bringing back some of the juicier tidbits from the paper (for those of us who are already drowning in reading material and would love to read it, but can't possibly go there). And also thank you for highlighting some of the healthy "higher self" communication that's already happening on the I-Pod -- this reinforces/encourages that type of relating. It's refreshing to hear an acknowledgment of the communicative strengths that so many people here are already bringing to this community!

Re: Important Announcement about the Pod

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 10:27:59 -0000

Christopher

Thanks for posting that. Every now and again I come across a piece of writing that for me summarises so much of what I'm experiencing and trying to get a grasp of. This is one of those - I feel like I felt when I first heard of AQAL - a convergent moment amongst all the divergence!! (read the article)

To all pod members, I recommend finding the time to read it (I know Tely - sorry!) I think it really is that important in terms of what we are/maybe trying to do here.

Juliee

Re: Integral Emotion

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 11:38:20 -0000

Hi again,

just another thought I had about the subject. I do not feel anger towards my children (Liz used this as an example of anger), I feel displeasure, so it is good to define the feeling, because it might mean many differnet things to many people. The Google search gave me some interesting definitions of anger:

a strong emotion; a feeling that is oriented toward some real or supposed grievance
A strong feeling of displeasure or hostility.
Synonyms: anger, rage, fury, ire, wrath, resentment, indignation

So, according to definitions, we are looking at a very strong emotion that is in its nature violent. Also, I found this reading very interesting - it is from Aurobindo's Integral Yoga and it talks about anger as an emotion of 'lower' nature. You might find it interesting...

Rgs,
Nuit

Re: Because its Friday

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 12:46:34 -0000

Because somewhere it is Friday . . .

Dr. Smith is enticed by a green woman and freaks out.

Re: Because its Friday

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 13:36:55 -0000

marw: Dr. Smith is enticed by a green woman and freaks out.

~

lol

At least he finally stopped picking on the robot. Must have mellowed him out.

spirals,
Arthur

Re: Because its Friday

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 13:52:37 -0000

My hubby recognised the series just hearing the video from another room, the bubble headed booboo - afraid it wasn't part of my upbringing!!

Juliee

Re: Up yours, Gaiam?

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:37:45 -0000

She does doesn't she.

I could always volunteer to take a photo of the yoga class I teach; two of the women are late 70s to early 80s and the rest not far behind, the choice of clothing is eclectic to say the least and their teacher is short and round rather than long and lean ;D

But then that probably wouldn't sell too much product.

Juliee

Re: Integral Emotion

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:41:37 -0000

It's interesting, Nuit, we have been discussing this over on the God Pod too, in the context of Robert Augustus Masters' recent newsletter article On Women's Anger. We talked about anger, passion, fear and even a bit about anger in the movie the Fountain.

So much has to do with how we define anger, indeed. Is there an "Integral" definition of anger, I wonder?

When I looked, I found that RAM has written a book on Anger, which looks interesting...

I also found this funny article by Wilber about his own vitriol.

Peace spirals,

Nicole

Re: Important Announcement about the Pod

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:43:45 -0000

Mary, yes, I find that very helpful and encouraging!

Re: Encounters of the far out kind

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:26:08 -0000

:D

That's just what I need - even more inches around my middle!

Juliee

Re: Integral Emotion

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:52:23 -0000

Nuit, I still think you're mislabeling anger. It seems like anything you feel you have an appropriate response to is not anger. So you say you don't feel anger at your children. I would say you're the first parent in the world to not feel anger at your children, according to my definition.

I also noticed that you assign the word "violent" to the definitions, though violence is never mentioned in those defintions.

Liz

Re: Integral Emotion

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 18:40:20 -0000

Words are a funny thing, aren't they? Take "violent", for example. That doesn't necessarily refer to what we'd normally associate with "violence" (physical attack, etc.). Taken more loosely, I'd say it can be associated with some of the other words Nuit mentioned in her definitions of "anger" -- like "hostility", "rage", "fury", "wrath",.... To me, these words do sound pretty "violent".

And when cross-cultural issues come into play, well... all bets are off, really. :)

So who's to say when someone is "mislabeling anger"?

I think we can all agree that there are healthy and unhealthy ways of expressing "anger" (in the broadest sense of the term), and some may want to find different words to distinguish between the healthy and unhealthy forms. It's hard to say, particularly online and in writing, when using different words is a form of denial or avoidance and when it's just a healthy means of being more specific.

Anyway, that's mostly the linguist in me talking.

Cheers,
Grey

Re: Up yours, Gaiam?

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:35:29 -0000

I agree with you Liz. I hoped these spiritual sites would be different. More inclusive. Less captured by the collective ethos.

I would feel a real ahhh if we had less phyiscally gorgeous women in advertisements as well - the whole spectrum.

Its not that surfaces are superficial - the whole integral thing is that the inner and outer are interpenetrating and interlocking domains.

Its that we are all imperfect, and it would be nice to be OK with that.

A little bit more C-O-M-M-U-N-I-ON, AGAPE in the mix.

Re: Up yours, Gaiam?

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 01:17:41 -0000

Hey, if it works for the Republicans, why not Gaiam?

Re: Up yours, Gaiam?

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 01:35:17 -0000

Well, shit. Let's talk to Siona bout this. In fact, I'll write to her, post what I said, and anyone who wants to can comment and we'll add that before I send. Or I'll just invite her to take a gander here.

Liz

Re: Up yours, Gaiam?

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 01:59:54 -0000

You can use Firefox with ad-blocker and never see any advertisements again on sites you browse.

(shrugs)

m

Re: Integral Emotion

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:43:32 -0000

Hi, Nuit! I think you might have some misconceptions about anger. You said: "whenever I feel anger and act on it - it seams as though I am following a destructive force and I am yet to see a person who does it differently. In fact, whenever I feel clarity and whenever I am calm about the confrontation I am about to take - like in the case of your 'purchase of wrong goods', the destructive element is no longer there, I act constructively."

I think that anger and clarity are not mutually exclusive. In fact, anger can add to clarity. Anger informs us that in some way, we perceive our wellbeing as being threatened. This is really good information and should not be avoided. We can, however, choose to use the information to respond skillfully or unskillfully. What you described (in the quote above) sounds more like a reaction to anger, as opposed to a response, which is more thoughtful and clear. Reactivity often leads to destruction, whereas a mindful response can be very constructive, leading to whatever adjustments need to be made for the good of those involved without losing sight of the bigger picture.

Physically, I am not acting from my stomach, I am not letting the anger drive me, but I act from my head.

This is as it should be. But keep in mind that your head is informed by your stomach, and without that information, your action might not be optimal, as it would be based on incomplete information. "Letting anger drive you" would be reacting to anger and may well be destructive; letting anger inform you would probably result in appropriate action which might be very constructive.

Lots of other instincts / emotions also come from our animal nature and yes, we should be aware of them, but not necessarily follow them.

I mostly agree with you on this, but what I would change in this statement is that we should not blindly follow them. Following them mindfully, however, would probably serve us well.

Check out Robert Augustus Masters' brilliant essay on anger called "Compassionate Wrath: Transpersonal Approaches to Anger":
http://pods.gaia.com/robert_augustus_masters/discussions/view/333694

Re: Integral Emotion

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:46:37 -0000

Nuit, there seems to be an inconsistency here. The second definition of anger that you cite refers to it as "a strong feeling of displeasure or hostility." You described the feeling you get towards your children as being "displeasure." So it seems that if we use the definition you provided, then you do, indeed, feel anger towards your children, but there is nothing here to indicate that that anger is violent. Certainly you could react to your anger with violent behavior, but the anger itself isn't necessarily violent.